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Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
26 February, 2012 20:19
Another one caught out ripping off ordinary working people who pay their taxes:-

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

And yet ordinary working people keep voting for these scumbags. FFS why ?



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
aggi (IP Logged)
26 February, 2012 20:46
I wouldn't trust Livingstone as far as I could throw him. At least Johnson doesn't pretend to be a socialist man of the people.

A top quote from him:

Quote:
“THESE rich @#$%& just don't get it…No one should be allowed to vote in a British election, let alone sit in our Parliament, unless they are paying their full share of tax.
"Cameron's problem is too many of his team have become super rich by exploiting every tax fiddle. Given he is surrounded by so many millionaires in the shadow cabinet it's not surprising their tax policies aim to reward the rich and screw the rest of us…"



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/02/2012 20:54 by aggi.

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
soapylily (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 01:00
Quote:
aggi
I wouldn't trust Livingstone as far as I could throw him. At least Johnson doesn't pretend to be a socialist man of the people.
A top quote from him:

Quote:
“THESE rich @#$%& just don't get it…No one should be allowed to vote in a British election, let alone sit in our Parliament, unless they are paying their full share of tax.
What a load of crap. Any British citizen should be allowed to vote in British elections. paying tax shouldn't come into it.

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 12:44
I think irony soap is, by his measure, he would like to see himself barred from voting.

Odd really because he had a point but in truth he's just another idiot helping the media keep us blind to the real issue with tax avoidance. It's not about rich individuals but actually about rich corporations -and this government introduced legislation to expressly ensure they could pay less tax.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 22:53
Rich corporations are known by another name as well....employers. The more profitable a company the more likely they are to provide employment, thus I've no problem with a reduction in corporation tax. It's scumbags like Livingstone who p*ss me off, whingeing about everyone else tax dodging while doing the same thing himself, and not to provide employment, just to line his own pockets. Typical socialist scumbag, I'll happily dance on that tw*t's grave when he's gone.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 08:24
You've no problem with them paying 1% tax bc? Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinions. Seems somewhat unfair to me but life would be dull if we all shared the same thoughts.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
aggi (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 09:44
Looks like they're making a bit of an effort. Barclays £500m tax loophole closed by Treasury in rare retrospective action

I remember a few years back Barclays had some brilliant scheme that was revealed by Wikileaks which basically involved transferring money around the world and receiving a tax credit at the end, although there was no commercial reason for doing it.



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
pipindripin (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 10:45
There is a big difference between tax avoidance & tax evasion. . So it is the law that alows it that is wrong not the individual. As well as that we go down a very dangerouse road when we make retrospective laws which as far as I can recall has only happened 3 times in my lifetime, the first one was done Gordon Brown. Bye the way B.C. can I give you any help when you dance on that terwats grave ?

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 13:21
Small beer these changes compared to the changes this government has made to help its corporate buddies:

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/02/07/a-corporate-coup-detat/



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
aggi (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 14:26
The trouble is is that there is now quite a grey area between avoidance and evasion. One company may legitimately be using a "loophole" as sensible tax planning whereas another may have set up a non-commercial scheme specifically for the reason of favourable tax treatment.

I can't say I'm overly keen on Monbiot, I found a lot of articles seem to be on the basis of he's formed his opinions and then found evidence to match them.



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 15:30
Monbiot Longsiders ? I haven't the time to read it at the moment but I will, I wouldn't take that left-wing Guardian joker too seriously though. He's another one with an agenda, and I thought he was still in a tent outside St Pauls, his heart will be anyway, even though he's no doubt tucked up in his expensive mews flat somewhere Islington way.

He's another hypocrite of the Livingston ilk, listen to my anti-capitalist, liberal-left, progressive rhetoric and please ignore my expensive, bourgeois lifestyle. Another tw*t.



BC
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 15:40
I'm not sure I mounted a defence of Monbiot, merely linked to the only decent analysis of the tax law changes and how much they will cost us - not to worry though, those employers you are so fond of will keep on accumulating the wealth, operating with no social conscience at all.

I should point out here that I am also an employer BC - unfortunately as a small business we are not allowed to use these new tax rules.

As for this 'anti capitalist' thing - I thought we'd all accepted it doesn't work, at least in its current guise, because if it did the banks would not have been bailed out - sort of against the basic principles of capitalism that.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 17:35
Quote:
Longsiders1882
I'm not sure I mounted a defence of Monbiot, merely linked to the only decent analysis of the tax law changes and how much they will cost us - not to worry though, those employers you are so fond of will keep on accumulating the wealth, operating with no social conscience at all.

Instead of swallowing Monbiot's drivel about how much it's going to cost us without question Longsiders, would you first take into account some facts about FTSE100 companies:-

The amount of corporation tax paid up to March 2010 was £6.1bn. Up to March 2011 it had increased to £9.8bn.

Hardly evidence of a Tory inspired big business tax avoidance scam there.

Total tax bill paid from trading 2010---£17.5bn.....2011---£25bn.

This tax avoidance scam just isn't working is it ?

Total tax paid and collected (including payroll taxes and VAT) in 2011 rose by 14% to £67.7bn, 13% of all the government's tax revenue, just from those 100 wicked companies alone.

Need I go on ?

Monbiot also writes for the Guardian, so instead of whingeing about some fantasy Tory inspired tax evasion scheme, why doesn't he highlight a real one, the GMG tax evasion scheme,

The Guardian Media Group is one of the shrewdest corporate avoiders of tax in Britain, in 2008 it made a £300 million profit and yet managed to pay no corporation tax, the following year in 2009 it still paid no corporation tax, it uses the offshore Caymans tax haven to own assets, it uses tax efficient trusts and deploys all manner of perfectly legal tax shelter strategies to avoid paying tax.

Odd isn't it, 2008/9, a left wing government, a left wing newspaper, yet tax avoidance no problem. Why the sudden outbreak of mockrage and hysteria now ?

And as for a social conscience, I expect you, Monbiot and the Guardian are very much against the 'slave labour' Tesco and other companies are employing ? Have a look at this then, 4th piece down on the Guardian's work placement scheme, especially the last sentence.

[order-order.com]

There's a lot I don't like about the way this country's run Longsiders and I suspect we agree about most of it. The idea that we're being done down by some sort of Tory/Big Business conspiracy though is laughable, it's a much more far reaching plot than that, involving all the political class and their hangers-on. Besides Cameron and the half-wits in the Tory party just aren't that clever, I'd have thought that was obvious by now.

What I detest most of all though is hypocrisy, and the progressive left is raddled with it. You know what to expect from Cameron, but Labour, Livingston, the Guardian, Monbiot and the millionairess Polly Toynbee pretend to be sneeringly above all that, but their snouts are in the trough just like the Tories.

I'd shoot them first come the revolution.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 21:49
Again BC I'm not sure I said in general terms it was a Tory thing, just the current fiddling of the taxes.

In terms of your tax figures, the amounts are meaningless, it is the percentage they are paying, Barclays was 1% I think Vodafone was similar, and I'm sure if we looked many others the same,including the guardian as you point out.

You are right about Cameron et al not being that clever, they are all in the control of big business, doing their bidding.

And no I'm notin the slave labour camp, I'd like every person unemployed for 6 months plus to be required to work for their benefits, in the community or wherever.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:20
I think we can agree that me, you and every other 'ordinary' person in Europe is being shafted by politicians . It's just the ludicrous idea that this is some sort of Tory conspiracy I can't cope with. If anyone thinks that, then they must have hibernated through the last 13 years of Labour sleaze, corruption and doing the bidding of big business and the city. It really doesn't matter which party is in power and I seriously distrust anyone who says it does. They either have an agenda or they need sectioning.

Which is why the likes of Monbiot, Toynbee and Livingston get right up my nose. It disappoints me to see you taking such charlatans seriously as well, you've more sense than fall for their nonsense.



BC
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
CheshireExile (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 22:47
If we really had a capitalist system, then the banks would have been allowed to fail. I'd argue that we don't, because basically we have corporatism whereby the interests of government (a cabal of professional politicians), the banks and the multinationals have been elevated way above the interests of the common citizen. What has happened is therefore not an indictment of capitalism.

Corporatism



http://i53.tinypic.com/2h5m9fa.jpg

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
fulledgelad (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 00:09
Thought provoking comment Chesh

Although imo Corporatism and Capitalism run side by side



Lest We Forget:
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Brian O'Neil (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 01:01
You was wasted as a fireman bc Honorable job that it is.I despair at people who refuse to allow facts to change their entrenched opinions.It appears to me that scientists, engineers and such like are the only people on the whole who use facts to govern their lives to our betterment.It seems that the majority of people can take facts and distort them in a myriad of forms akin to a hall of mirrors.

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
soapylily (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 02:10
Trust Cheshire to get it spot on. Might I suggest that corporatism grew from lessons learnt by capitalists as a result of the last great depression when banks were allowed to fail? Alongside commercial corporatism has grown up corpolatism (my word) Corpolatism is the combined action of more than two nation states in unelected suprational organisations established to protect elites (political, social and economic) by improving their situation or if that is not feasible, by maintaining the status quo. Examples: UN, EU, ASEAN, etc etc

Quote:
Longsiders1882

And no I'm notin the slave labour camp, I'd like every person unemployed for 6 months plus to be required to work for their benefits, in the community or wherever.
Longsid - I'd like everyone in work to have to work at lot less than less than six months before earning money they can keep. Like everyone in the USA only works for three/four months....in UK its apparently something like July 7th before you are keeping your money!

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 08:22
Agree 100% Chesh, which was my point about allowing the banks to fail - also agree with you soap.

BC I think every political party, of all colours, are the same bunch of charlatans in different ties - and even they have become interchangeable. So I haven't fallen for any of their rhetoric, merely used one article to demonstrate yet another hard rod we've had rammed up us

The number 1 rule that should disbar from from becoming a politician is wanting to be one. Power hungry, greedy, self serving ar*es the lot of them. The y bleat about China yet they'd love to have the same political situation here - they remind me of Premier League clubs who want to do away with relegation.

As ever BC we are not so far apart - but you seem to reserve all your bashing for Labour, whilst I've got slightly more disdain for the tories - but I'd happily catch the lot in a fishing net, weigh it down and send it to the bottom of the Atlantic.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
PlymouthClaret (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 11:56
Wasn't Corporatism an essential part of Fascist Italy, or indeed any country with a fascist ideology.

Unlike Communism where the country runs big business, in fascism, big business has always run the country.



Truth is, I thought it mattered. I thought that music mattered. But does it bollocks. Not compared to how people matter.

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 12:45
Quote:
Longsiders1882
As ever BC we are not so far apart - but you seem to reserve all your bashing for Labour, whilst I've got slightly more disdain for the tories - but I'd happily catch the lot in a fishing net, weigh it down and send it to the bottom of the Atlantic.

I'd agree with the above Longsiders, I just think that the Tories claim that we are in the current mess because of Labour's mishandling of the economy is far more realistic, and honest, than the Labour claim that it's due to Tory ideology.

Anyway, you bash the Tories, I'll bash Labour and between us we've got it just about right

Chesh has it spot on as well, call it whatever you like, but bailing out banks and spending 50% of GDP on the public sector certainly isn't capitalism, not as far as my understanding of it goes anyway.



BC
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
CheshireExile (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 16:55
"Fascism is the cult of unity, within all spheres and between all spheres.... Unlike ... communism which expropriated property and uprooted institutions in order to remake society from the ground up, fascism pragmatically sought to preserve what was good and authentic about society while bending it to the common good. Interests and institutions that stood in the way of progress could be nationalised.... But if they worked with the regime...they could keep their ...factories,banks, clubs, and department stores..."

From "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg, which is an entertaining read. He maintains that what we have in the Western world is basically a benign sort of fascism. One feature of fascism is that there must be a crisis, such as man-made climate change. Governments and big business (e.g. BP, Starbucks, the UN Climate Change bunch) then make a big song-and-dance and jointly implement grandiose plans which supposedly reflect the concerns of the citizenry and which are supposedly in their best interests, when the reality is much different (see, for example, the wind-farm scam- tax breaks, subsidies etc. all being channelled into the pockets of wealthy individuals and large corporations at the expense of the individual taxpayer who is rendered impotent by the lack of accountability and made to feel an outsider for going against the group-think).

And I think Livingstone is a frigging hypocritical power-hungry egomaniac without any scruples whatsoever.

Here endeth the rant.



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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Brian O'Neil (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 23:14
I have many years ago come to the philosophical conclusion that the masses do not know their opinions until they have read their morning papers.............which I think is a concise version of your Jona Goldberg quote CE.

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 12:16
If that Mr Goldberg is correct Cheshire, then what we're living through now must indeed be 'benign fascism'.

"there must be a crisis, such as man-made climate change. Governments and big business (e.g. BP, Starbucks, the UN Climate Change bunch) then make a big song-and-dance and jointly implement grandiose plans which supposedly reflect the concerns of the citizenry and which are supposedly in their best interests, when the reality is much different (see, for example, the wind-farm scam- tax breaks, subsidies etc. all being channelled into the pockets of wealthy individuals and large corporations at the expense of the individual taxpayer who is rendered impotent by the lack of accountability and made to feel an outsider for going against the group-think)."

Precisely what's happening, the odd thing is though, it works. The vast majority seem totally unconcerned at how they're being shafted, in fact millions of them even buy into the scam. God knows why.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 12:19
Well you buy into the tory rhetoric BC so it is no great surprise winking smiley



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 12:39
Do I ? I haven't voted Tory since the 1980's. And I won't be at the next election either.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 13:17
Come on, I did do a winky face ......



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 15:06
I know (Sm13), I don't take it personally and I'm sure you don't either. I like our little spats, often because after a lot of hot air, we end up agreeing with each other.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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Re: Rich Tax Dodgers
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 16:17
Funny thing BC, I re read 1984 recently.

If you imagine it as a caricature, an exaggeration, then we pretty much have every part of it. We have CCTV, close to government mandated excercise, lots of stuff to keep the proletariat masses quiet (drivel TV, production line music), rewriting of facts to suit the agenda of the day, the constant enemy (be it mythical super terrorist organisations or global warming), rendition with torture techniques that seem even worse than 101.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."


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