A few months back, when the George Swan being tapped up by Man. City conversations were taking place, it was widely rumoured that City were planning an academy in the Leeds / Bradford area to tap into the region's local talent. This in light of comments by Peter Swan (Leeds born, but f**king hates us now!) that the quality of the Leeds coaching has diminished dramatically since the days when Lennon, Milner, Walton and the like were being produced at Thorpe Arch.

Looks like this is bearing some fruition with City working with Leeds City College to run a centre in East Leeds every week. Link below. They have also signed a young starlet thanks to this scheme.

[www.tribalfootball.com]

How can this be happening? Are Leeds United running similar schemes in the city or is our club just letting other clubs steam in and take the local talent away at a young age?

For many of us the thing that kept us going through the dark days of League One (maybe a few more yet!) was the belief that Thorpe Arch and the excellent facilities and coaching available would one day produce a group of youngsters akin to the classes of 1993 and 1996 and in the future we could watch a Leeds team with 5-6 quality home grown players in it.

Mr. Bates has shown his contempt for the footballing side of our club with his refusal to invest in the repurchase of Thorpe Arch even though the money was in the bank to do so. His 'smoke 'n mirrors' campaign to blame Leeds City Council for not funding this purchase (because they had the audacity to want to know who was running Leeds United and ultimately profiting from the club) seems to have worked and once again Bates seems to have gotten away with blatantly letting the club down.

Let's be honest Thorpe Arch doesn't sell pre-match meals and drinks or offer out-of-season conference facilities for businesses with loads of cash so better any money the club have be spent on the Bates Motel. Right? Wrong!

When is Bates going to be held accountable for the long-term future of Leeds United FOOTBALL CLUB and not "invest" all money gained from the club to build his northern version of Chelsea Village, of which Bates still owns 80%?

It is obvious to some of us what Bates is doing and where his priorities lie despite his "in this all together" quote on his Yorkshire Radio show.

Do we have a youth policy or what? Will other club sbe bale to walk into Yorkshire and extract the michael?

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

FFS!!

this really fcking riles me

shameful ian that local talent is dissapearing over the pennines-thorp arch was one of our crown jewels--seems obvious the old cnut has no intention of doing owt about it-we need to retain and nurture our home grown talent-its fecking disgraceful mate-

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PROUD TO BE A HOLBECK HOOLIGAN AND BEESTON BAASTARD FROM WAY BACK

I doff my cap to the old tw*t - he is a f**king genius!

The plan: run down the academy by employing lower quality coaches and invest in the Bates Motel with the money saved.

However every now and then the club will sign a special young talent who is from West Yorkshire, from a family of Leeds United fans and dreams of being the next Harry Kewell or Jonathan Woodgate. After a season or two, the boys parents then raise concerns about the quality of coaching alerting the likes of Cheslea, City and Spurs and the boy leaves with Bates slagging off all and sundry in his programme notes and claiming that Leeds did all thye can to keep the youngster but his greedy parents forced the departure. Bates alerts his legal team who then mount a compensation claim and an "undisclosed fee" is agreed and the club is paid accordingly.

Bates proclaims his victory on Yorkshire Radio and in his programme notes and we all think we are so lucky to have tis hard nosed businessman running our club, taking on and beating the horrible bigger boys who think they can take our local talent for free.

Then take the aforementioned "undisclosed fee" and invest in the Bates Motel, creating more space to sell overpriced meals to rich businessman. Genius!

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

Maybe as a L1 side / soon to be CCC people at the top iof LUFC have realised we will be raped for any talent we produce?

Prem clubs will always tap up the boys they want. Even Bolton can nick Ward!

Then there is Woods, Taiwo, Rose, Garbutt and Gordon.

Milner, Lennon and Delph at least appeared for the first 11 for a season.

The only thing LUFC needs is to be back in the Prem. Trying to produce talent only serves in supplying Prem clubs with their "youth"

ive only heard of one youth player leaving apparently for reasons of coaching. its clear why they all leave, they want the money, and i dont blame them for it, or blame bates for that matter.

until we get back into the upper echelons of english football this will happen.

the only reason you dont hear this happening at other clubs is because we are one of the only cubs outside the prem to continually produce promising players worth gambling on.

Quote:

Big BB
The only thing LUFC needs is to be back in the Prem. Trying to produce talent only serves in supplying Prem clubs with their "youth"

How are we going to get back in the PL if we:
(a) don't invest in the team, or
(b) don't invest in youth and produce our own future talent?

Looks like neither is happening at the moment.

If your point is the case, BB, then let's just walk away from TA altogether and scrap the youth schemes. That will save a bit more money!

"the only reason you dont hear this happening at other clubs is because we are one of the only cubs outside the prem to continually produce promising players worth gambling on."

Who have we produced most recently?
Delph, yes!
Garbutt, yet to do anything.
White, the next star of Spurs, Toon or Chelski.

Not exactly over-run with true talent in recent years, are we?

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

"ive only heard of one youth player leaving apparently for reasons of coaching. its clear why they all leave, they want the money, and i dont blame them for it, or blame bates for that matter.

until we get back into the upper echelons of english football this will happen.

the only reason you dont hear this happening at other clubs is because we are one of the only cubs outside the prem to continually produce promising players worth gambling on."

Here here...!!! We've had young lads coming through the system that haven't made the grade and have been released, and we've lost people like Taiwo and Woods who haven't set the world alight, and to be honest, would not have done so had they stayed as we were in League 1.....so long as we are here in League 1, we will only be able to keep or develop youngsters if they have a) sensible agent and b) even more sensible parents......Bates isn't to blame here, it's just the way of the world. Ridsdale is more to blame really, as his speculative spending lost us Thorp Arch and all that goes with it.....for a League 1 outfit to be still living like a Prem club is pie in the sky......we cannot afford to buy ( and run ) a Premiership class training academy, and if we did, we'd definitely get raped for the best talent, because it would be easier to find. I know the idea of Man City running these workshops gauls, but this way, they are doing all the work rather than us find the young stars, and then other clubs swoop in and lure them away.

I always enjoy watching Micah Richards (Leeds born and bred) playing for Citeh!

"I know the idea of Man City running these workshops gauls, but this way, they are doing all the work rather than us find the young stars, and then other clubs swoop in and lure them away."

They are doing all the work and getting the benefits. Here's to them finding the next Micah Richards, Aaron Lennon and James Milner then. We'll keep signing journeymen and the Bradley Johnson's of this world for undisclosed fees.

Bates has no intention of re-establishing TA to it's previous level at any stage and regardless of what league we are in. He has a hotel to build and run and that is where the real money is. Not ticket sales from some poxy northern Football club whose fans once wrecked his beloved scoreboard at Chelsea.

Close Thorpe Arch!

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

while I agree in principle, the sky isn't falling. We've got a few good players in our youth team, and consistantly beat the "top" clubs U18 sides.

additionally, we had the 14 year old kid urn down @#$%& to stay with us last year.

We don't have a@#$%&set of coaches, they are just new and don't have the big names that you found when our academy was thriving.

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Leeds, Always.



Cnut in America (CIA) - Spreading cnutism to the yanks (officially) since January 22, 2010!

Leeds are still scouting in the area but have cut back in the area. Before, we used to run centres up to the under 12’s age group – now we stop at under 11’s. Man City have flooded all the age groups, and are using a scatter gun approach – invite 500 kids and pick the best out – it costs an absoloute packet.
My two have been in both camps – Josh was at Leeds for a year, and James with Man City – the standard of coaching was a million miles apart. The Leeds one was high quality with a very high standard of player – all players were scouted. The Man City one was very poor – to such an extent that James dropped out of it after 2 or 3 months. The coaching was poor, and the players weren’t too good (much easier to get into their training centres) – I know a lot have dropped out for similar reasons.
Leeds took the decision that after 12 years old, they don’t cater for them (but will still come and watch them-we had a scout down a month or two back – Josh’s knee is @#$%&, but when he recovers I’ve got the scouts number to ring)

Man Citys approach is get 1000 kids down, and hope one makes it…to be honest, I think the Leeds one is the best (although maybe stopping a bit early – Josh’s group of 10 players had nowhere to go at the end of the year as there was no age group to put them in, so they just monitor them) – Man City’s must cost a fortune…which they can afford.
Don’t think for a minute we have cut down on our youth development – although we lost a lot recently to City, we have recruited a lot as well…

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[www.facebook.com]

Quote:

Andy Baggott
Leeds are still scouting in the area but have cut back in the area. Before, we used to run centres up to the under 12’s age group – now we stop at under 11’s. Man City have flooded all the age groups, and are using a scatter gun approach – invite 500 kids and pick the best out – it costs an absoloute packet.
My two have been in both camps – Josh was at Leeds for a year, and James with Man City – the standard of coaching was a million miles apart. The Leeds one was high quality with a very high standard of player – all players were scouted. The Man City one was very poor – to such an extent that James dropped out of it after 2 or 3 months. The coaching was poor, and the players weren’t too good (much easier to get into their training centres) – I know a lot have dropped out for similar reasons.
Leeds took the decision that after 12 years old, they don’t cater for them (but will still come and watch them-we had a scout down a month or two back – Josh’s knee is @#$%&, but when he recovers I’ve got the scouts number to ring)

Man Citys approach is get 1000 kids down, and hope one makes it…to be honest, I think the Leeds one is the best (although maybe stopping a bit early – Josh’s group of 10 players had nowhere to go at the end of the year as there was no age group to put them in, so they just monitor them) – Man City’s must cost a fortune…which they can afford.
Don’t think for a minute we have cut down on our youth development – although we lost a lot recently to City, we have recruited a lot as well…

My experience Andy was completly opposite my lad as been to both and Man city were leagues apart from leeds their coaching was not only very good but made it real fun for the kids and the amount of coaches per ratio of kids, it sometimes felt like they could have a good one on one with them. The only problem for man city is that when they want them to go to platt lane in manchester twice a week, kids and parents decide against it totally due to work commitments and getting your lad their straight from school.

Huddersfield take more of the cream from around these areas than any team totaly due to how they treat the kids and parents and their coaching, the only thing with Huddersfield is they just can't keep them once they get to 15/16 the bigger clubs come along (Leeds, Manchester and so on)and take them.

Bradford is run by Man city they pay Bradford to coach kids with a first refusal on any kid that might shine BUT a lot of parents, coaches know this and that is why they don't get the kids hence why they get beat by even clubs like mine.

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Koppy:

"Huddersfield take more of the cream from around these areas than any team totaly due to how they treat the kids and parents and their coaching, the only thing with Huddersfield is they just can't keep them once they get to 15/16 the bigger clubs come along (Leeds, Manchester and so on)and take them."

My point exactly! A LUFC in L1/CCC will be raped by Premr clubs! Ward went to...Bolton FFS.

The main aim of the club, the only aim, has to be to get back to the Prem.

Did Arsenal produce Fabregas (Barcelona), Walcott (Saints), Ramsey (Cardiff), Bendtner, Van Persie, Eduardo, Vela? NO!!! They were "poached" when they were 17 and showed they had the potential to do more.

Many great U18 players do nothing really as an adult. (Forrester / Macphail the superstars of our FA Youth cup winning teams did not achieve what evryone thought they could)

BB:
"The main aim of the club, the only aim, has to be to get back to the Prem."

I'll ask again, how do you propose we do this with,
(a) an insufficient youth policy that doesn't [roduce quality youngsters, and
(b) no money to spend on better players (or should I say, I expect we have got the money but our chairman - er hum - invests this money elsewhere off the field)?

Believe it or not a Football Club is all about players. I am sure you know that. Bates policy is about loaning other clubs players to boost an inferior squad and then complain when things go awry.

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

Despite Chelsea's attempts to buy a youth policy, how many home grown kids have come through in the past 8 years? (Was Terry the last one?)

Despite Man City's scatter gun approach how many kids do you think will come through now there are millions to spend on proven world class talent?

For every Aaron Lennon, there are hundred's of a Tony Lennons (Or a David Brown/Cherno Samba)

Brum have done well with loan players - Hart, Bendtner, Larson, Muamba, etc.

LUFC have not done so well with Permanents signing - Nicholls, Crainey, Gregan, Butler, etc.

In todays football players do not tend to spend much time at clubs. Perhaps a move every 3-4 years. Heros come and go. Our youth policy has yielded tens of millions in the past 3 years. Pity a lot of those kids dreams will have been shattered as they chase the green (Or their parents/agents chase it!)

Not entirely sure you have answered the question? Do you honestly believe we can loan players of the appropriate standard to get us to the PL and then same tactic to keep us there? The last time we made a move to go to the PL our midfield engine included two loan players in Douglas & Miller and the tactic nearly worked. But when the plan backfired and Watford's players showed more hunger in the play-off final those two were sent packing and never replaced (although granted Blackwell did waste a lot of money on Nicholls). How inconvenient that parent clubs may want their players back at some stage.

I am not sure it is appropriate to compare L1 Leeds United with money bags Chelsea and City, is it?

It may be that a club has to look at 50 or so young centre-backs to unveil one Jonathan Woodgate but that is the same with any business, you have to sut through the chaff to find the gold.

We have no apparent policy on recruiting players other than keeping things cheap. When we get a few injuries sign a loan cover (Beccio and Vokes as example) and then send that player back when the injury has healed.
If we are not going to produce our own generation of players and not invest in talent then I fear the tactic of regaining PL status may never happen.

That won't bother Bates as long as 25k turn up most weeks payiong top dollar for the sh*t we have to put up with.

Close Thorpe Arch!!

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

Thorp Arch is used by the 1st team and reserves!! Why close it, it is a great facility.

I have come to terms with the fact that there is nothing really coming through the academy at 16/17/18.

All the players we developed with a great youth set up that may have had a chance have been poached.

Maybe White, the 2 Jones Boys (Keeper and CM) may develop into outstanding players.

Bottom line is, even a great youth set up in L1 and CCC will see the best creamed off by Prem clubs.

We need to be in the Prem for 3-5 years before our academy bears any fruits.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't subscribe to the view that "We need to be in the Prem for 3-5 years before our academy bears any fruits".

What about our youth set up of the early '80's when we were a skint second division club under Eddie Gray? You know the one that produced the likes of Sheridan, Sellars, Wright, Irwin, Phelan, Scales, Seaman, Aspin and later Batty and Speed? All (apart from Aspin) had decent PL careers.

It is about quality of coaching and taking time to nurture talent. The lads above had decent coaches and a Manager who believed in youth despite the club's position in the league.
It has been reported in many quarters that the current Leeds coaching is substandard due to lack of investment and, when it comes to our Fund Manager chairman, I can believe it!

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Love Leeds, hate Bates!!

[www.loveleedshatebates.com]

"I am not sure it is appropriate to compare L1 Leeds United with money bags Chelsea and City, is it? "

But Ian, this is exactly what you are doing......you seem to think we can afford to go the way we used to go, when all our money was borrowed.....we simply cannot afford it in L1 and as BB says, until we are in the Prem, we will continue to be a feeder club for the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc which is probablt why Bates doesn't see this as a priority ( thats' if you're right in saying he doesn't ).

"What about our youth set up of the early '80's when we were a skint second division club under Eddie Gray? "

This is totally irrelevant now......we are a world away from football in the early 80's, and the two ( then and now )cannot be compared....the chances of that happening these days are slim to zero.

"They are doing all the work and getting the benefits. Here's to them finding the next Micah Richards, Aaron Lennon and James Milner then."

They've got the money...! Just remember, they are a few years ahead of us since their own money troubles. We as a club simply cannot afford what you would like the club to be doing. At the moment.

Bairdy this just seems like another reason (for you anyway) to have a go at bates.

like it or not there is no such thing as a succesful youth development program in the lower leagues. and that is where we are.

only crewe have had relative success in youth development in the past and all those players were sold on, just like what would/will happen at leeds if we invest a fortune.

as bates said, why invest time and effort and money in young players for the bigger boys to come and steal them for next to nothing?

i have to say i dont understand exactly what you are complaining about.

is it
a) man city have opened a scouting place in yorkshire
b) bates not buying back thorpe arch
c) bates not investing in youth development
d) leeds united not producing players premiership calibre
e) quality of coaching
f) all the above

Quote:

bairdy
What about our youth set up of the early '80's when we were a skint second division club under Eddie Gray? You know the one that produced the likes of Sheridan, Sellars, Wright, Irwin, Phelan, Scales, Seaman, Aspin and later Batty and Speed? All (apart from Aspin) had decent PL careers.

how many of said players made it as a great player for leeds?
seaman, phelan, irwin, sellars and even wright had there better years at other clubs. maybe even batty and speed.
i would be happy not producing talent, than producing talent for them to leave and hit the stars at another club.

Quote:

WeAllLoveLeeds
Bairdy this just seems like another reason (for you anyway) to have a go at bates.
W.A.L.L - I don't know you nor you me. But one thing is safe and that is my continual dislike of Ken Bates. You know, the man that said we had a debt of £6m in Sept 2006 and six months later we went into admin with £35m worth of debt. The man who took us into Division 3 and kept us there with his short-term planning for at least 3 years (maybe more) and threatened to liquidate us if his bully boy takeover didn't go his way. Remember? I do not have to explain myself to you but be safe that if you read my posts there is a very genuine chance that Bates name maybe taken in vain. Why? Because the old c**t is the worst thing ever to happen to Leeds United. In my opinion. If that offends you then don't read my posts. If you read and disagree then remember this is a site where Leeds fans can voice their opinion on Leeds United. A few months ago (November I think) someone came on here and complained about ticket prices on a thread I never contibuted to. You then said that the person involved was "just like Bairdy" moaning about ticket prices. When do I complain about ST prices and the like? Evidence please! FACT: we have lost 10-15k fans since Bates came in. Why? you tell me! Read my posts if you are going to comment.

like it or not there is no such thing as a succesful youth development program in the lower leagues. and that is where we are.

You say this and then mention Crewe. Make your mind up. Crewe gave the world Platt, Ashton, Hulse, Savage and the like. So they moved on, doesn't make the youth set up any less successful. And where would they be without the money in for those players?

only crewe have had relative success in youth development in the past and all those players were sold on, just like what would/will happen at leeds if we invest a fortune.

If we were successful, players would stay. Johnny Howson has stayed and I genuinely think Fab would have. Maybe one day we'll find out.

as bates said, why invest time and effort and money in young players for the bigger boys to come and steal them for next to nothing?

i have to say i dont understand exactly what you are complaining about.

Read my post then it is quite clear. Man City have opened a youth set up in West Yorkshire which I assume is because they know there is a gap in the market. Why are Leeds City College working with Man City and not the home town club?

is it
a) man city have opened a scouting place in yorkshire

Read the above.

b) bates not buying back thorpe arch

Every Leeds fan should be f**ked off with this. Absolute disgrace. The money was in the bank but Bates wants a Motel. Cash for Bates before Football progress, everytime.

c) bates not investing in youth development

Above.

d) leeds united not producing players premiership calibre

Fabien Delph?

e) quality of coaching

I can only go with what I have read from those closer to TA and a general concensus is that the quality has dropped. Maybe you are closer and can enlighten me?

f) all the above

Quote:

bairdy
What about our youth set up of the early '80's when we were a skint second division club under Eddie Gray? You know the one that produced the likes of Sheridan, Sellars, Wright, Irwin, Phelan, Scales, Seaman, Aspin and later Batty and Speed? All (apart from Aspin) had decent PL careers.

how many of said players made it as a great player for leeds?

John Sheridan - legend. And Sellars, Wright, Irwin and Aspin came into Leeds when we couldn't afford to buy and had to ship out the ageing team that got us relegated. Where would we have been without the youth policy then?

seaman, phelan, irwin, sellars and even wright had there better years at other clubs.

True - given away for a pittance. Why don't we ever learn?

maybe even batty and speed.

Don't be ridiculous. Both won Div 2 and Div 1 winners medals for Leeds. Part of the great Leeds midfield including Strach and Macca! Maybe they thrived elsewhere, but don't doubt my intelligece and say they weren't good for Leeds. And they commanded £7.25m in transfers between them, in the 90's.

i would be happy not producing talent, than producing talent for them to leave and hit the stars at another club.

I understand something of what you are saying, but selling players for a decent fee keeps us lower league, poxy little clubs going. And keeps our chairman in luxury.

See you at the game tomorrow. Let's hope we win.

bairdy - first of all i find your posts interesting and sometimes quite informative.

i dont recall ever mentioning your name in regards to ticket pricing, bates bashing yes, tickets no. if i did then i apologize.

second - yous seem to have taken my post as a attack on you, and it isnt. i fully respect your views on bates and leeds.

i said i dont know what you are complaining about, mainly due to the fact you had mentioned a lot of different things that you complained about, so i was trying to find out what is your main gripe, as i felt the title of the thread about man city wasnt really the issue for you.

with regards to the youth development, i think that it is pointless producing players for others to steal. i stand by that fully. it doesnt matter about the quality of coaching, it is the quantity of money on offer that will ultimately decide for where young players want go.

regarding crewe - i said relative success, meaning that they are the most succesful yet still havent produced top top quality players, platt being the exception.
can you name me any other lower league clubs that have produced quality consistently in the last 15 years? i cant, which i think verifies my point that lower league clubs do not have successful youth development.

for the record your points of view dont offend me in the slightest. although it seems mine have you.

see you in southampton tomorrow.

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Well our youth set up has given us Parker, White and Howson.

Of course it would have been great to keep Milner, Lennon, Delph, Rose, Woods, Garbutt, Ward, Taiwo and Gordon too.

I'll regard this year as successful if we go up to the CCC and have a great summer in this instance.

Don't forget Bairdy he saved our club....

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Greg: " he saved our club"

Totally agree Axe Man!!!

Yes!! Without him we'd be in the Championship at least too Big BB!!

Long live Ken. Minus 15 in League One! The biggest help since the club was formed!


Totally unselfish Ken! Yay!!

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I train on a Thursday night at Leeds City College (old Thomas Danby Collegsitee) and the Man City posters are up every where. An asian guy runs an evening training session and most of the lads there are too old to become proffessionals but still have City training tops on etc...

I would imagine that the younger kids like this 14 year old lad train earlier but the later training sessions are still good PR for City and I bet they get new football fans through this.

It really fustrates me as I think of all the talent in Leeds that is going to be missed.