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Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
an angry wolf (IP Logged)
18 May, 2017 18:47
I ask the question as someone that is decent at something should be able to demonstrate an ability regardless of luck/ motivation ... where are these "decent mangers"? Mourinho leading United to their lowest win ratio in a generation, Guediola unable to win anything despite having one of the richest squads in world football, the much vaunted Silva at Hull with his flash suits leading Hull to a battering at home to sunderland and a 4 -0 d1cking at Palace? The list is endless. The only purpose of a manager is man management skills and identifying players to sign... what else do they do ? Tactics are much the same at every club and so called geniuses like Conte would be sacked if Chelsea players suddenly decided to have a tantrum and not bother. People are talking about fancy foreign mangers coming to wolves.. do people really think some crank in a suit speaking broken english is going to make any real difference to a sport of random luck like football? Wolves would be better off going down the local pub and finding a motivational speaker with someone else who knows something about football unlike Thelwell to sign them.

The most successful manager of all time Alex Ferguson says in his autobiography" tactics don't really matter as footballs a simple game, all that matters is respect and hard work coupled with talent". Yet we still have people obsessing over tactics, formations , men in the hole and someone " not tactically up to it" when its effectively 11 men running around a field with the determining factor in a game who has the better players and more importantly the more motivated players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2017 18:48 by an angry wolf.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
Arthur Tannen (IP Logged)
18 May, 2017 21:31
Brian Clough is my all time favourite manager and his approach couldn't have been more simple. I watched a documentary last year and a Forest player asked him "what are we going to do with free-kicks, boss?" and his reply was "shoot". These days they'll probably watch endless videos of what to do at a free kick.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
an angry wolf (IP Logged)
19 May, 2017 15:11
The funniest comment is when people type " Manager X is a championship manager and the premiership is too high a level". McCarthy was apparently in this category yet people fail to realise the reason their teams flounder is due to working with peanuts and having tiny budgets acquiring comparatively sh1te players. I think if these apparently tactically clueless managers had x million to spend at a club that could pay players competitive wages they would suddenly metamorphosize into tactically astute managers overnight getting results. As though for example the Watford manager who has just been sacked to wide spread criticism that can't speak a word of english stood in the dressing room with some great ingenious tactical plan every game with a translator probably saying in broken english " the boss says come on boys give it everything" lol.

As far as football " styles" go , it's another myth. I defy anyone to differentiate between the styles of lets say

: Dave Jones
: Dean Saunders
: Kenny Jackett
: Walter Zenga
: Paul Lambert
: Mick McCarthy

I'd wager any amount of money a lay person watching wolves games under each manager with no affiliation to the club wouldn't have a clue what "style" or game was being managed under each manager if they had to randomly watch 5 matches from each manager. The reason the so called excellent managers have better styles is the players are better creating space, not just thumping it up the pitch etc like the cheap dross we have bought for years . What it ultimately boils down to is 22 men running round a mown field chasing a ball in shorts- some may be more proficient than others but the over analysis of managerial tactics is hilarious. Of course if it didn't exist sky sports news would cease to broadcast informing us that there have been fewer goals scored this season between 0 and 15 minutes during premiership matches this season and Dowie in a suit informing a nodding poodle presenter it shows managers are keeping it tight during the first 15 minutes using great insight. Forget the fact they may concede a bucket full after of course...

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
irishwolf (IP Logged)
19 May, 2017 17:02
There are good managers in football but they are a rare as hens teeth.
Ferguson being the obvious one. I would define a good manager as someone who gets the best out of his resources and I would define a good football manager as someone who utilises the talent available while exploiting the opponents weaknesses.
I would have no problem in describing Eddie Howe as a good football Manager given the resources at his disposal.
As for tactics, they are well over hyped and I would also Blame Sky for a lot of this nonsense.
As for the merry-go-round of poor managers, Sven / McLaren / etc, well thats just laughable, as is the assertion the The Premiership is the best league in the world.
I am losing interest in football with the exception of The Champions League.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
an angry wolf (IP Logged)
19 May, 2017 17:10
As you say Irish, Ferguson is the obvious one, but he himself has said that tactics are an irrelevance compared to the other factors. The game is saturated with phone ins, blogs on tactics- if you look at any match you will see anything if you convince yourself hard enough regarding men in the hole , diamonds , long ball etc. It reminds me of these cranks peering into cups of tea seeing the face of Jesus staring back at them.. no matter how hard you try to reason with them it's random chance they are determined to see the afterlife staring back in their PG tips.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
cedric harper (IP Logged)
20 May, 2017 06:37
Quote:
irishwolf
There are good managers in football but they are a rare as hens teeth.
Ferguson being the obvious one. I would define a good manager as someone who gets the best out of his resources and I would define a good football manager as someone who utilises the talent available while exploiting the opponents weaknesses.
I would have no problem in describing Eddie Howe as a good football Manager given the resources at his disposal.
As for tactics, they are well over hyped and I would also Blame Sky for a lot of this nonsense.
As for the merry-go-round of poor managers, Sven / McLaren / etc, well thats just laughable, as is the assertion the The Premiership is the best league in the world.
I am losing interest in football with the exception of The Champions League.

I agree with you Irish about all this premiership over hype I am getting fed up with it as well. However don't give up on football, there have been some incredibly exciting games in the league two play offs this past week with very late deciders in both games. The commitment of the players only earning not much more than a regular man's working wage was a pleasure to watch.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
Arthur Tannen (IP Logged)
20 May, 2017 10:48
Mark Hughes is another example, at Blackburn he was criticised for his long ball style, he goes to Stoke, bigger budget and now gets praised for playing good football.

Leicester were dropping like a stone under Ranieri, Shakespeare takes over, changes nothing player or formation wise and they go onto win 7 of their next 11 league games. The stats proved that all that changed was the players worked harder. Basically they'd got fed up of Ranieri and weren't putting in the effort.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
an angry wolf (IP Logged)
20 May, 2017 13:54
That's right, Leicester couldn't be bothered yesterday and got pummelled 6-1 by the spuds.. when they could be bothered earlier in the season they beat Seville , liverpool etc but have decided to go on holiday.... same manager, same players, same tactics.

 
Re: Is there such a thing as a " good manager"
chicagowolf (IP Logged)
23 May, 2017 16:10
Anyone know what Lambert is actually doing? He cannot possibly be doing anything like coach's work.
Maybe he is using up his 'sick' days


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